If you are into 3d development for games, augmented reality or just interactive stuff like websites, you just can't miss the session entitled Flash Player 3D future scheduled for Max 2010 scheduled on October 27 at 11:00AM in room 503. Sebastian Marketsmueller (Flash Player engineer) will deep dive into the next generation 3D API coming in a future version of the Flash Player.
Now you may wonder, what does this means, what kind of 3D are we talking about ?
What kind of API ? True textured z-buffered triangles ? GPU acceleration ? Even better ? What I can say is forget what you have seen before, it is going to be big 
When this will be available ?
We will share plans with you at Max during this session, I tell you, some serious stuff is coming for 3D developers.
If you are also curious about the inner details of the Flash Player renderer, Lee Thomason (Flash Player architect) will delve into the details of the Flash Player renderer, and show how to optimize the rendering performance of your applications. Lee will cover mechanisms like the display list, text rendering, shaders, GPU hardware acceleration, and exclusive features coming in a future version of Flash Player (hehe).
After this session, Flash Player rendering will no longer be a mystery for you. This track called Deep Dive into Flash Player Rendering is scheduled on October 27 at 09:30AM in room 511A.
I will be happy to meet you there at Max in Los Angeles and talk about our future plans and also get your feedbacks about the player around a fresh beer. I will post further details about all this in the following weeks.
If you haven't checked all the sessions available for Max this year check the online scheduler.
Comments (46)
C’te teazing! Can’t wait!
Interesting news. Was thinking that one of next big moves for Flash should be 3D with WebGL and Unity clearly showing that it is possible even on mobile phones.
I have doubts though… On IDE side… Unity for example seems to have a very good IDE for rapid 3D game development, assets management etc etc. I have my doubts that Adobe will bring something like that out of the box…
Hi wonderwhy-er,
This is an interesting discussion. Yes, Unity has a very nice IDE for 3d games development. On the other hand as developer, I would think also about all the cool things that you will have for free in the runtime if you use the Flash Player for 3D where Unity has drawbacks like Webcam, Microphone, Dynamic sound generation, video codecs, 2D timelime, 2D graphics API
and complex server side API’s (binary sockets, AMF, etc.). Update from Chris Allen, Unity has UDP support and binary sockets too.Who knows, maybe some third-party tools will target the Flash Player
Thibault
Finally! hopefully before the year ends we should be able to enjoy this wonderful progress
@Thibault I’m excited to see what you guys come up with regarding 3D support for Flash! I do think you have quite a lot to catch up on, as Unity 3D has a huge head start on 3D on the web.
Also, to clarify, as Unity is built on Mono it has a very robust networking layer. So your comment above stating that “complex server side API’s (binary sockets, AMF, etc.)” are a drawback is simply not true. They have support for UDP, and p2p without needing a proprietary solution like RTMFP. They also do support UDP discovery, as well as a host of other beneficial features for creating low latency experiences. Unity also does support binary sockets. They don’t have native support for AMF, RTMP, etc. but there’s nothing stopping people from creating that using what’s already provided. Anyway, our team has a tremendous amount of experience in this stuff, as we’ve developed Brass Monkey SDK (http://brassmonkey.infrared5.com) for both Flash and Unity players, as well as the Red5 server. From what we’ve found Flash simply can’t perform as well as Unity in regards to networking support for games-like functionality.
I do say all of this in the hopes that your team will address opening up UDP sockets on the Flash player in the future. Although I understand this may conflict with Adobe’s business model.
Best of luck on the new 3D features for Flash. We still love Flash, and use it on a daily basis for a variety of content for our clients!
Hi Chris,
Nice to hear you are excited about this!
Thanks for the correction, I did not know about UDP support, and binary sockets in Unity, this is nice.
Damn, Unity has nothing to envy for networking API’s, we need to fix this
Thibault
Thanks a million to the flash player team for the great efforts !!
I not much of a 3D guy, I’ll stick to the beer…
Kiddin’, I already have some wiiflash air nativeprocess etc. ideas about that…
That’s a great news, can’t wait to see that working and make it a try
Dah, html again (the online scheduler)
Thought it was a flash content accoring to your screenshot.
So I guess Unity would add Flash Player as a target.
Est ce que l’on peut se mettre a rêver d’un affichage 3D comme sur Nintendo 3DS ?
les ecrans 3D débarquent et ce serait dommage de rater ce virage !
great!!
waitting.
Arrete de mentir Thibault tu bois jamais d’alcool !!!
will this session be viewable online or must we live in the USA?
Yepeee, Flash can now do what Director (Shockwave) could do for 10 years…
i second the request of andy,
will the session be accessible online for those who can’t make it to the max?
even a registration put online later will be enough, even if i’ll die reading the tweets of those who will attend
Hi Shockwave,
No, we will do things differently giving much more diversity and power to the users without forgetting ease of use too.
Thibault
Hi Allessandro,
Yes all the Max sessions will be recorded and made available later on adobe.TV
Thibault
is it possible to include auto conversion of 2D elements into a 3D world with full depth? e.g. turn a 2D floorplan into a 3D floorplan. I believe away3d were trying to make this happen via their ”
extrude” command.
many thanks
Nick
Awesome news! I cant wait to see. I really hope the flash devs can bring something serious to the table, and I have no doubts they will. Is this an internal (Adobe IP) engine, or external? Soooo many questions, now I have to wait till October to find out *sigh* Nice bday present for me though
3D sounds great and it’s really a nice step in the right direction.
Just what I wonder about.. Flash went HD.. now it goes 3D.. when will it go better than Stereo.. wouldn’t 5.1 or better sound not be the final addition to a perfect 3D feeling. I am a bit disappointed that flash still only allows for stereo audio
.
If the next Flash will accelerate 3D in GPU, you will see it becoming a DirectX worst nightmare!
Will we have to wait until October to get an updated 64-bit Linux plugin, or will we be left with the gaping security hole in the current version forever?
I hope we get to see more of the physics engine they showed off in the old CS5 demos.
I was really disappointed when that didn’t make it to the final build.
Physics + 3D together would make an awful lot of sense though.
Uau it’s something that will shake it!
Can’t we have a beta?
Even if sounds great news I also hope that some of todays problems with the FP will be finaly past.
So even bigger then hardware accelerated real 3d ? Hmm let me guess, Apple going to support it?:)
Will this plugin will support 64 bit windows?
will this product support 64 bit windows?
( this response is written on firefox 5 64 bit)
http://templatereactor.com/blog/3d-api-for-the-flash-player.html
It was already possible to create 3D first person shooter with Shockwave 10 years ago and in Java in 1997 like this one:
JMonkeyPlatform is promising too.
http://hem.passagen.se/carebear/fraggame.htm
Java and OpenGL are already used in some commercial video games like Wakfu. Flash comes a bit late in this area. I don’t wait for anything from Adobe, Java already does the job quickly and reliably
Hi Thibault,
Very interesting post. We’re investigating some implementations of 3D using Alchemy right now.
I’m not sure if you can comment, but would the new 3D features of Flash render this obsolete or are we looking at roughly the same performance benchmarks just a nicer interface for developers to interact with?
Thanks,
Jon
WELL, ADOBE is running around adding more crazy futures to its products, without fixing their number 1 issue : flash is memory intensive, just open 15 tabs of youtube and your mac or pc would crash unless you have 6 GB ram!!!
on the other side whats up with adobe? economical downbreak? cant pay employees maybe? HEY WE ARE MOVING TOWARDS 128 bit software and hardwares! your still stuck on 32 bit just because it works (it doesn’t) ?
old morals! you people at adobe should consider yourselves as a technology barriers! it matches your purpose in life well for adobe tho…
Hi John,
A different API giving you much more power
Thibault
This sounds great of course, but following my experience as trainer and developper on Flash, many features of flash aren’t well polished enough to be straigtforward. For example getting a file list from a folder should be as easy as getFilesList() (with player restrictions like projector vs webplayer). But no, it’s not existing, you need an xml and all the files list to do a simple gallery. The ‘rewind’ function should be available on MovieClip and it’s not.
The AVM1movie should look like a simple MovieClip, with code restrictions, but you can’t put a stop from as3 code on it.
All those nasty things which are logically expected by logical people learning flash are missing, what will be missing in the 3D api ? lots of simple things that will of course lead us to think that Adobe products are always lacking of that old Apple’s ‘think it, do it as simply’ spirit. Well I honestly would recommend Adobe to do a real ergonomic study of their API and software, it’s sometimes weird and stupid to say to people learning flash ‘be happy, now you need 4 lines of code to do a simple ‘getURL()’ while on javascript you’re okay with document.location=”page.htm”.
Clearly I think that the important thing now is to run behind a market and not to bring flash a respected place for it’s reliability and simplicity of use.
Hi behnad,
Dude, why so much hate ? I never had Youtube crashing my machine and 64-bit players will be there soon. I know it took some time but believe me we are not wasting our time.
Thibault
FONT tags in the page title? Seriously?
Hi zb,
Yes, I agree this was hardcore
It is fixed now 
Thanks!
Thibault
I love the ‘sneak’ of an upcoming MAX ‘sneak’ approach (kind of like advertising easter eggs right after Christmas
).
The session sure sounds exciting and I look forward to the ‘reveal’ for the 3D api.
I have to ask: In general terms, do you know if there will be any new audio features revealed as ‘coming in player 11′, even if you can’t say what they are? Can we get a ‘hint of a sneak’ for that? I would love to see some movement on http://bugs.adobe.com/jira/browse/FP-273.
Hi Greg,
I’d love talking more about it
Yes, this feature is something we are seriously taking a look.
Thibault
This post is really exciting stuff.
For rendering: Will there be a BSP, Z-Sort Combo solution – or is it something completely different?
Reeaaaallllly curious.
@Thibault: I hope that you don’t make the deadline later (and later)… Just like the Adobe 3D Museum: http://www.adobemuseum.com
The performance is REALLY BAD for even a thing like a intropage… And with a new computer.
Or flash for mobile platforms (after you killed flash lite ofcourse)
Or performance improvements, how is it possible that a third party library perform 100x faster: http://bit.ly/dkgv1g And get even better performance with the newest browsers.
Or the 64-bit version that was launched in 2008, but killed again… Btw. Why is the max. amount of memory I can use is like 1,7 GB and not 3 GB for example?
According to: http://www.quasimondo.com/examples/memoryhog.html
@They wanted to make the language even more complicated in AS4:http://moock.org/lectures/newInECMAScript4/
But it was killed… Guess why?
They really seem to like kill things…
I forgot the reason and demo why Flash wouldn’t suck after Steve Jobs ‘Thoughts on Flash’… Which somehow was killed and everyone thinks it’s definitely true what’s Jobs is saying.
And the faster and more lightweight framework ‘Slider’.
@Shockwave: It has to! How does it suppose to compete with Unity3D and WebGL (which will be suported by all browsers) if it wouldn’t.
But like leng said, if they can’t even make a intropage perform well, you shouldn’t expect much!!!
Hi Leng,
@Thibault: I hope that you don’t make the deadline later (and later)… Just like the Adobe 3D Museum: http://www.adobemuseum.com
The performance is REALLY BAD for even a thing like a intropage… And with a new computer.
We are not responsible for non-optimized content Leng, you know this
But I heard we are looking into this to help the people developing this website.
Or performance improvements, how is it possible that a third party library perform 100x faster: http://bit.ly/dkgv1g And get even better performance with the newest browsers.
Hehe I know, This library was compiled using haXe using the haXe compiler which does nice bytecode optimizations we do not do today. We are currently working on a new compiler to achieve the best performance possible. This abc bytecode runs in the same VM, proof that the VM can performer way faster than what we have today, so nice improvements can be done in the compiler.
Or the 64-bit version that was launched in 2008, but killed again…
Stay tuned for this
Thibault
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[...] Für die diesjährige MAX 2010 wurde eine kleine Sensation angekündigt. Offensichtlich sollen die Fähigkeiten des Flash Players 3D Content darzustellen zukünftig stark erweitert werden. In einer von zwei angekündigten Sessions soll eine 3D API (“… next generation 3D API …”) vorgestellt werden. Eine zweite Session dreht sich bereits um spezielle Themen wie Display Listen, Text Rendering, Shader und GPU Beschleunigung (siehe ByteArray Blog von Thibault Imbert). [...]
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[...] esto, el jefe de producto de Flash Player, Thibault Imbert ha dado algunos datos más al respecto en su blog, instando a cualquier desarrollador que trabaje con 3D, realidad aumentada o elementos interactivos [...]
[...] Adobe will reveal a version of Flash later this year which will support 3D, we’re learning. The information originates from a leaked presentation which should have been debuted at the Adobe Max conference in October. Furthermore, Adobe’s own Imbert Thibault [Flash Player product manager] confirmed the coming of 3D in a blog post. [...]
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[...] anúncio veio por meio de um post de Thibault Imbert, gerente de produtos da empresa. Imbert não deu muitos detalhes e disse que mais informações só [...]
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[...] full article posted here -Flash Player 3D Future session at Max 2010 [ by Thibault Imbert ] – ByteArray.org. [...]
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[...] 3D, de acordo com o jornal Daily Telegraph.O gerente de produtos da empresa, Thibault Imbert, confirmou em seu blog que o futuro do Flash é mesmo a terceira dimensão. Um painel no evento Adobe Max, que será [...]
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[...] – Foredraget kommer til å bli stort, mener Thibault Imbert, en av Flash-sjefene i Adobe, via sin blogg. [...]
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[...] Adobe по продукту Flash Player Имберт Тиболт (Imbert Thibault) сделал публикацию, в которой привёл снимок с плана мероприятий [...]
[...] Flash Player product manager Imbert Thibault offered a bit more of a teaser in a blog post. “I tell you, some serious stuff is coming for 3D [...]
[...] programmata per il 27 ottobre. Thibault Imbert, un altro dipendente di Adobe, rivela nel suo blog ByteArray.org che le novità saranno molte e importanti: tra queste Adobe illustrerà il nuovo motore di [...]
[...] პროდუქტის Flash Player შესახებ გამოაქვეყნა პუბლიკაცია, რომელშიც კონფერენციის Adobe Max 2010 [...]
[...] general. Pero no significa que Adobe esté dormida. En el próximo MAX (el gran evento de Adobe), se anunciará un nuevo API 3D para Flash 11, con fecha tentativa de Mayo del [...]
[...] Тибо Имберт обратил внимание на презентацию в своем блоге, но отказался дать более подробную информацию, за [...]
[...] tecnología que se está utilizando para ver películas en el cine como por ejemplo Avatar. En esta web se invita a todas esas personas y empresas interesadas en realidad aumentada, desarrollo de juegos [...]
[...] sur le blog d’un chef de produit d’Adobe, Thibault Imbert, que l’on apprend cette nouvelle : Adobe sortirait une version 3D de son [...]
[...] sur le blog d’un chef de produit d’Adobe, Thibault Imbert, que l’on apprend cette nouvelle : Adobe sortirait une version 3D de son [...]
[...] AIR Android y Google TV. Thibault Imbert, uno de los manager de productos Adobe, nos desvela en su blog el próximo lanzamiento de un Flash Player en 3D. El producto será presentado en la feria Adobe [...]